View source for TCS Wiki:Requests for deletion/Requests/2011/List of ThunderClan characters

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:''The following discussion is preserved as an [[Help:Archiving a talk page|archive]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not change it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No more changes should be made to this discussion.'' <!-- from Template:Archive top--> 
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{{deleted|Clear consensus to delete. [[User:Pmlineditor|Pmlineditor]] ([[User talk:Pmlineditor|t]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Pmlineditor|c]] '''·''' [[Special:Logs/Pmlineditor|l]]) 11:43, 14 April 2011 (UTC)}}
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=== List of ThunderClan characters ===
:<span class="plainlinks">[[:{{ucfirst:List of ThunderClan characters}}]] ([{{fullurl:{{ucfirst:List of ThunderClan characters}}|action=edit}} edit] &middot; [[{{TALKPAGENAME:{{ucfirst:List of ThunderClan characters}}}}|talk]] &middot; [{{fullurl:{{ucfirst:List of ThunderClan characters}}|action=history}} history] &middot; [{{fullurl:Special:Whatlinkshere/{{ucfirst:List of ThunderClan characters}}|limit=999}} links] &middot; [{{fullurl:{{ucfirst:List of ThunderClan characters}}|action=watch}} watch] &middot; [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode:{{ucfirst:List of ThunderClan characters}}}}}} logs] &middot; [{{fullurl:{{ucfirst:List of ThunderClan characters}}|action=delete}} delete])</span>
Either way ''has nominated this page for deletion for the reason:'' There is no context given.  What is a Thunderclan?  Where is it from?  And there is no discussion of its notability anywhere.  It's been tagged for clean up for months, but nothing done on it.

''Please discuss this request below, but keep in mind that [[:m:Voting is evil|you shouldn't vote on everything]] and that there may be options other than "keep" or "delete", such as merging.''
====Discussion====
*'''Delete''' - no assertion of notability, and no sources (so I suspect it's original research). '''''<font face="Serif">[[User:Kansan|<font color="#15317E">Kansan</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Kansan|<font color="#D4AF37">(talk)</font>]]</sup></font>''''' 02:41, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*:Looking for third party sources. --[[User:SEPTActaMTA8235|SEPTActaMTA8235]] ([[User talk:SEPTActaMTA8235|talk]]) 15:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - ThunderClan is an important aspect of the [[Warriors (book series)]] universe. There is a mirror article on enWP. I would be happy to help clean this up if it is kept. <font face="Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:PrincessofLlyr|<font color="darkgreen">PrincessofLlyr</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:PrincessofLlyr|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</sup></font> 03:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*:PrincessofLlyr, can you ''please'' help us rescue this article? --[[User:SEPTActaMTA8235|SEPTActaMTA8235]] ([[User talk:SEPTActaMTA8235|talk]]) 15:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*'''Weak delete:''' Even if ThunderClan is notable, I doubt this list of characters is '''''[[User talk:Purplebackpack89#top|<font color="#660066">Purpleback</font>]][[User:Purplebackpack89|<font color="#000000">pack</font>]][[User:Purplebackpack89/c|<font color="gold">89</font>]]<font color="#FF9900">≈≈≈≈</font>''''' 03:19, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*It is useful to look at what en considers notable, but, of course, notability does not automatically transfer over. For our purposes, I would think a section in the main [[Warriors (book series)]] should be sufficient. '''''<font face="Serif">[[User:Kansan|<font color="#15317E">Kansan</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Kansan|<font color="#D4AF37">(talk)</font>]]</sup></font>''''' 03:27, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*:I will be '''[[WP:BOLD|bold]]''' and do some merging, if you don't mind. --[[User:SEPTActaMTA8235|SEPTActaMTA8235]] ([[User talk:SEPTActaMTA8235|talk]]) 16:00, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*<s>'''Merge''' to a page called [[List of characters in the Warriors series]].</s>'''Delete''' and start over. --[[User:SEPTActaMTA8235|SEPTActaMTA8235]] ([[User talk:SEPTActaMTA8235|talk]]) 15:45, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' pure original research. Any ''adequately sourced'' content (I see none) can be '''merge'''d into [[Warriors (book series)]]. As for ThunderClan itself, [http://www.google.com/#q=ThunderClan&tbs=ar:1,nws:1 these Google News results] comprise solely passing mentions. This confers no notability. Anything from the ''Warriors'' series (characters, clans, concepts) ought to be merged into the main article. [[User:Goodvac|Goodvac]] ([[User talk:Goodvac|talk]]) 21:52, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*:If this gets deleted can you userfy it? --[[User:SEPTActaMTA8235|SEPTActaMTA8235]] ([[User talk:SEPTActaMTA8235|talk]]) 21:52, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*::Why would I userfy this and how would I? I'm not an admin. [[User:Goodvac|Goodvac]] ([[User talk:Goodvac|talk]]) 21:54, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
* Merge the major characters into the [[Warriors (book series)]] page, and then delete.--[[User:Gordonrox24|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:#36B">Gordonrox24</span>]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[User_talk:Gordonrox24|<sup><span style="font-family:Arial;color:red">''Talk''</span></sup>]] 22:00, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*:If you please, I'd prefer to keep it. I'll get a team together and tidy it up. It is not from OR, it is from the book itself. It is not copied, nor is it Original Research. I have seen that this Wikipedia may not want my WikiProject, but I will keep all pages and make them as good as I can. That's why I made WikiProject Warriors. There IS a link in my signature (I put it there in case anyone wants to check it out) and if no one wants it yet, ''I'll'' userfy it onto my own userspace. I'm a decent person, and I made that page with no intention to use my own research for it. I read, mark a useful page, and write it all down here. I never made it just so it could be merged or deleted. I made it so that it would have its own article. Look at the main English Wikipedia, for goodness' sake! Do you seriously think that it started out the way it is now? No! The articles started out short and the members MADE them long. Please keep it. '''Keep''' it. Please. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help page|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 22:12, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*::If you read my explanation on your talk page, you will find that this page is indeed OR. The information derives from your personal knowledge of the series. [[User:Goodvac|Goodvac]] ([[User talk:Goodvac|talk]]) 22:16, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*:::I give up! I'll just userfy this and allow others to fix it up. It doesn't have [[WP:SNOW|a snowball's chance in hell]]! I'm going to try and conclude this. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help page|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 22:20, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*::::Um, may I? [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help page|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 22:31, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
*:::::Feel free to place anything in your userspace, so long as it abides by [[Wikipedia:User page]]. [[User:Goodvac|Goodvac]] ([[User talk:Goodvac|talk]]) 22:34, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, let's resume. There is a mirror page on en, and I believe that it must remain. Yes, we are our own wiki, but didn't we take some of the policies from en? We are a smaller, simpler, wikipedia that must grow. For every page that we add, we become larger. We will never be as big as en, but we must try. I can search for sources around the Internet (which is hard for me to do, as I mostly head here for my information), or I can get a team of people to help me. I'm not the best one to ask to categorize, copy-edit, even simplify, but I am a good source of information. I only wish that OR were less restrictive for articles about books, as it is hard to find a source except the actual book. I find reviews on every book I own, but they never give much information. Especially not about the characters. That's my opinion. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help page|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 22:29, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
:<big><big><big><big><math>QUALITY>QUANTITY</math></big></big></big></big> --[[User:SEPTActaMTA8235|SEPTActaMTA8235]] ([[User talk:SEPTActaMTA8235|talk]]) 17:00, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
:The presence of a page on en does not translate to the need to have the same page here. Just because en has it doesn't mean that they have evaluated the notability of the subject.<br>OR applies to ''all'' articles because if people start concocting material, we would not know what to trust and what not to trust as accurate. We can use only reliable, third-party references. For books, this mostly comes in the form of reviews, but with regards to ''Warriors'', the lack of coverage in book reviews is a strong indication of non-notability. [[User:Goodvac|Goodvac]] ([[User talk:Goodvac|talk]]) 22:37, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
:The fact that you cannot find sources proves that this is not a notable subject.  If this was notable, you would find good coverage in many other sources.  If the only source you can use is the book itself, it's not proving that these characters are notable.  It would be more appropriate for a fan Wikia than Simple English Wikipedia.  [[User:Either way|Either way]] ([[User talk:Either way|talk]]) 23:01, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
::I've worked long and hard to try and make it good. And all that leads to THIS? You disgust me. Fine. '''Merge''' is my new vote. Ignore my first. Strike it for me. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help page|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 00:33, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
:::I disgust you because...?  Your article doesn't meet our notability guidelines?  Well, I'm sorry you feel that way.  [[User:Either way|Either way]] ([[User talk:Either way|talk]]) 00:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
::::All right, that's it. Admins, please close it because I have agreed to merge it, as the very slight majority has said to do. Moving out of userspace very soon to merge into the Book Series article. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help page|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 00:39, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
:::::Just because '''you''' want it merged doesn't mean that it will be.  It can still be deleted that it should be deleted overall without merger.  [[User:Either way|Either way]] ([[User talk:Either way|talk]]) 00:42, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
::::::Well, merging it would mean that the information is still there and that it is in an article that is good. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help desk|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 00:44, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
:::::::That doesn't change the fact that it's OR. We can't have OR ''anywhere'' in article space. [[User:Goodvac|Goodvac]] ([[User talk:Goodvac|talk]]) 00:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
I know. So I'm going to keep it on my word document and once I have third party sources, I am going to place it back in. It will then be good. Do you agree? I have moved it back into article space after reading the post on AN/I. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help desk|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 00:57, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
:Seriously? It needs copy editing, expansion, referencing, cleanup...etc, etc, etc. It needs slight "npov" and "storytelling" tweaks. Make sure the refs are <u>RELIABLE</u> too. --[[User:SEPTActaMTA8235|SEPTActaMTA8235]] ([[User talk:SEPTActaMTA8235|talk]]) 11:34, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
::Excuse me but I wasn't the one who did that! Yes, I occasionally have capitalization and spelling errors, but I do my best to write a NPOV and non-storytelling part. You know, I have other books too, that are good, like CATS OF THE CLANS. Yes, it's a spinoff of the Warriors series, but it also has information about most of the characters. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help desk|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 03:44, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Um, no offense, Ian. Referencing: get reliable non-primary sources. Expansion: Just add more. Copy editing: Ask Demiurge1000, she does pretty good copy-edits; I can't. NPOV: I'll try this; I'm not exactly a npov writer either. --[[User:SEPTActaMTA8235|SEPTActaMTA8235]] ([[User talk:SEPTActaMTA8235|talk]]) 11:48, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
::::It's a he, and I will ask when I get the chance. In the meantime, we should '''keep as long as there have been good edits by someone within a week'''. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help desk|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 21:06, 8 April 2011 (UTC) .
:I'm going to ask someone to make a final, deciding comment and close this discussion. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help desk|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 21:12, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
::Not goodvac, he's not an admin. By my count, 4 deletes, 1 merge. Looks like a '''delete''' to me. --[[User:SEPTActaMTA8235|<span style="color:darkred">SEPTA</span>]][[User talk:SEPTActaMTA8235|<span style="color:darkgreen">cta</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SEPTActaMTA8235|<span style="color:darkred">MTA</span>]][[Special:EmailUser/SEPTActaMTA8235|<span style="color:darkgreen">8235]] 21:22, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
:All right. I'll put the article you-know-where so that we can work on it. [[User:IanP|Loudclaw]]/[[User talk:IanP|Hey, let's collaborate!]]/[[User:IanP/Help desk|Desk]]/[[User:IanP/WikiProject Warriors|WP:Warriors]]/[[Special:Contributions/IanP|My changes]] 22:43, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
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This request is due to close on '''01:56, 12 April 2011 (UTC)''', seven days after it was filed, although it may be closed earlier due to [[WP:SNOW]].<br /><br />
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an [[Help:Archiving a talk page|archive]].  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not change it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.''<!-- from Template:Archive bottom --></div>